Faults and Problems
and causes.
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A rather long update on genetic disorders is at the bottom of this page also includes some references to studies done on health of cross and pure breeds 06/05
ALSO READ QUESTIONS AND ANWERS PAGE.
Also, the general health of your dog and yourself depends far more than you may realise on your environment, do go to our separate site for health after you have read this page click here to go to it, to get back to this site there is a link on the left hand side of all pages.
If you are considering buying a Neapolitan Mastiff or any other pure breed first do your research on the breed, all breeds have their faults.
Breeders may not tell you the truth so ask a few vets as well. (Although in Australia very few vets know enough about Neapolitans to give an opinion based on experience)
GET THIS STRAIGHT: because I intend to mince no words and tell the truth as I see it, do not get the idea that I am “bagging” Neapolitan Mastiffs.
The Neo is THE best breed I have encountered in my 50 odd years of life, his unique character makes him well worth considering if you are seeking a reliable home guard and a great companion, he cannot be compared to any other breed. His Old World instincts to protect remain as strong today as they were centuries ago.
This is not the case with other so called guard breeds, they have lost so much of their will to guard that only the exceptional dog among them is of any use at all as a guard.
Neapolitans are prone to bone problems these may be genetic in origin or may be caused by bad nutrition or environmental conditions. They are naturally loose jointed and this is often mistaken for dysplasia when in fact the dog is fine, if he is limping it is more often from sore ligaments or muscles than dysplasia, although I have seen a few with Un-united Anconeal Proses, which is usually a death warrant, and at times other elbow problems most outgrew these by two years of age, structual problems are, however, a problem in Neapolitans.
Sherilyn Allen states in her excellent book on Neapolitan Mastiffs that she has seen only five dogs with arthritis of the hips, or hip dysplasia and that all were extraordinarily sound, they had in fact all won championships in the show ring. S. Allen is a vet and a breeder of Neapolitans of long standing; her book is well worth buying. Her opinions on health matters are to be considered with respect although I do not agree with all of her views on other matters.
No Neapolitan Mastiff has tight fitting hip joints, and if it were possible to breed such a Neo he would not have the correct gait, his unusual bear-like walk depends on his loose joints.
Heart problems occur, sometimes genetic other times not.
Cherry eye is common but easy to fix, and once done the dog is fine. Dermoids are more serious but may also be fixed, and are not so often seen in the breed
.
This cherry eye was fixed with a simple operation, cost $150. The dog now has a perfect looking eye and no ongoing problems
This is the result of a vet insisting on sewing the gland back in due to fears of the dog getting dry eye if it was removed, you can still see the gland poking up in the corner of his left eye, Neos seldom ever get dry eye, and those who do can get it regardless of weather the gland is there or not, due to the laxness of the Neo's connective tissues the gland will almost always pop out again, even when a new process of making a pocket and tucking the gland well in is carried out.
If your Neo gets cherry eye, you are far better to run the very low risk of dry eye than to run the almost certain risk of needing further surgery when the gland pops out again, too many surgeries can leave the dog with permanent scarring.
Very “typy” Neapolitans such as the show breeder extols, are prone to low thyroid activity this is what gives the excessive wrinkle, shortened leg bones of massive proportion which is a form of dwarfism, these dogs also have a low immune system, this is a worry and in my opinion one of their major faults as it leaves them prone to all sorts of illnesses, very young puppies more so than the older dog.
So now you have an idea of the bad news, what to do? Find a breeder who has the courage to stop the rot and breed toward a healthier dog such as the Italians bred for many years before the “showies” wrecked their health by inbreeding generation after generation to produce what they see as a romantic resurrection of the original and ancient Molosser.
I do not have a problem with mating dogs who are related occasionally in order to strengthen a desired attribute, but to do so constantly generation after generation even to the extent of putting full brother over full sister, father over daughter ect. is no less than genetic cruelty and should be stopped.
I do not believe that breeders of old would have done this as they were much closer to nature than we are today and would have had an instinctive knowledge of animal husbandry which modern day man has lost. Stock which could not survive without artificial insemination, caesarean sections, hormone replacement and antibiotics would not have survived to pass on their weaknesses. All the above are essential tools to ensure the survival of many modern day pure breeds.
If the European Convention has it’s way almost 200 breeds will have to be modified or cease to be. The Neapolitan is one of those they mention, if this happens we will lose one of the best home guards in the world, I would far rather see a little less wrinkle and a taller more muscular, fitter Neo than none!
If you are thinking all species are prone to faults, even humans, who most certainly are not allowed to inbreed: True. Not every fault can be blamed on inbreeding but inbreeding does cause a far higher percentage of faults and if continued this percentage will continue to rise, consider the Royal Families of old who would not mix their “blue” blood with that of the “common” people, they inbred themselves into producing so many imbeciles that the penny eventually had to drop. Genetic diversity is essential for the survival of any species.
Our Trublue Bandogs are prone to most of the genetic faults which can affect the Neapolitan Mastiff, though they occur less frequently, The Bandog being a hybrid (to use the term loosely) is a longer lived dog and his general health is much improved.
This is what Mario Zacchi (his book ‘The Neapolitan Mastiff’ is one of the best available if you can get it) had to say about the dangers of inbreeding:
"....Rather, it remains to us to observe the danger
of a tooBesides, even if there is no deather of contrary opinions, an excessive insistence on homozygosis carried out by means of incest seems likely to weaken the products, reduce their skeleton and increase a predisposition to certain diseases or malformations.
While we are on the subject, Borgioli (an author on
general animal genetics) reminds us that, in the long run, diminishing vigour is noticed through the practice of in-breeding, less fertility and even the extinction of some lines although others may well resist.
In conclusion let us say homozygosis allows for the fixing of certain
traits, while heterozygosis is the strengthening power of others. both should be adroitly distributed." (p63&62).
Mario Zacchi 'The Neapolitan Mastiff' English version Published by La Moye Distributors Jersey. 1987. translated by Tania Szabo.
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I am putting a few true stories below of things which have happened to some dogs, some from our kennel, others not, if you wish to take the time to read them it may be of help to some.
----- Original Message -----From: Mr Wayne JeffriesSent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 12:03 AMSubject: DissatisfiedG'day MariaMy name is Matthew, I live in Perth. Just over a year ago I bought Cujo off you, he was aged seven months old at the time. If I remember correctly you had named him grunter. Well now he is a tad over 19 months old, I have just got back from a five kilometre walk with him and my eight month old neo cross great dane, the thing is he couldn't physically endure this walk, ( I only walk them when the sun goes down so as to advoid any heat problems ) he collapsed about 400 metres from the finish and I had to go back and collect him in the ute. Now to be quite honest I'm pissed off, I had good faith and spent good money assuming I would get a good physical specimen along with the guarding instinct that you tout on the web site so often. One of the reasons I took him on at seven months was so to guarantee that I wouldn't inherit any HD problems. Well guess what his right rear leg displays this problem and has done since I got him, now I perhaps foolishly perservered and buried my head in the sand in denial but he still can't run freely but bunny hops. Right now I can hear him gasping and I reckon he want see the night out I will probably have to put him down myself as he is suffering and I can't afford a bloody vet. I thought you did this job when you screen the pups before you raised and sold them. As you can guess I'm not happy. I adore Cujo, and don't think for one second I have'nt fed him properly or looked after him. I have noticed that when I walk him, ( I don't jog or anything I walk ) he starts off full of beans, yanking my arm off in excitement however about 3 kms into it he starts developing a deep throaty rasping gasping sound from his lungs like he is having an asthma attack , I reckon he has a congenital heart complaint but I'm not about to fork out even more money for some vet to tell me that . He is approx 60 kgs tops so he's not overweight I feed him well and worm him regularly. My pup Tonka is hardly puffing and neither am I but poor old Cujo has keeled over on the path and couldn't move. Apart from that he is a great dog, good guard etc but instinct is not much good to me when after a little exertion he carcs it eh! It really shits me I've had the worst run with dogs, either they are great physically with no brain or go in them or like Cujo a great brain and spirit coupled with a defect body. I was really hoping that like you keep spruiking on your site that I could have advoided these defects by not going for a purebreed but a mix a hybrid. Oh well now I'm stuck with the problem, but in future I think I will be going to a breeder such as Ataraxia Kennels in NSW and getting a South African Boerboel which has got all the vet certificates with its hip scores etc .GoodbyeMatthewHi Matthew,You did not listen well!You told me you would walk a couple of ks. with him at most, that would have been fine, but even to go that far you should have waited until he was mature, the fact that you are walking so far with your Great Dane Neo cross pup at 8 months of age is proof enough that you do not understand how these dogs should be handled.AND NO DOUBT WON'T BE TOLD EVEN AFTER WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO CUJO.As to him puffing, he is most likely exhausted, and may be over heated as well, because he is such a loyal breed, he has tried to follow you no matter what, and it has cost him dearly. (He may well have over taxed his heart into the bargain, I doubt he as a genetic problem there though or he would have dropped dead before now under your regimen)OR, THE.. ' NEARLY PULLING YOUR ARM OFF'... MAY HAVE RESULTED IN DAMAGE TO HIS WIND PIPE, THIS HAPPENS.....ALL TOO OFTEN.... AND A PULLING DOG IS PURELY THE RESULT OF BAD TRAINING.I advised you to go to a trainer with him right from the start.The molloser type dogs of today are NOT athletes, they ARE the best guard dogs going, you have been taking Cujo too far, and you are taking your cross pup too far also, if he throws to the Neo in his conformation you will cripple him as well, Neos have loose joints and too much wear and tear on those joints before the muscles and ligaments have developed, and the dog matured, will cause arthritis or injury, particularly in a young pup, a really fit specimen may well walk so far if left to fully mature before you take him with you, but most will not.You need to wait until your pup is at least 12 months old before taking him on long walks, you were told this and have ignored it.Cujo did not have any problems when you got him whatsoever, you have simply expected too much of him physically, stop taking him on long walks, if you want to go for miles get a breed suited to that sort of activity.No breed on earth is problem free, cross or pure, I have had very few of cases of HD in over ten years of breeding, and that is very good going for giant and large breeds, I do not 'spruik' as you put it, on my site that my dogs have NO problems EVER, just that they have FEWER than many, and that with the tough criteria by which our breeders are chosen I hope to keep on improving on this. Almost all have been fit .......for the purpose for which I breed HOME GUARD.Cujo may have HD in one hip, it can happen, but it is far more likely that his problem is caused from what you have done with him, this is no cop out on my part, nor do I wish to sound harsh toward you, but you have been irresponsible, and to make matters worse you would rather blame the breeder than learn from your mistake and not do it again. ( By your own admission that is precisely what you ARE doing)I will put your e mail and my reply on my site, it may help to stop another from doing what you have done.I am sorry about Cujo, both sorry for you, for you are obviously hurting, and sorry I sold him to you, I only did so because you seemed more responsible than you have proven to be. Had I placed him in a better home, I have no doubt he would be fine now.Maria.
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Bella, this dog is the only confirmed case of HD in Tru Blue dogs, she is on treatment and responding to it, her owners have opted to do what can be done short of surgery, she will most likely have a shorter life span that should have been the case, her owners keep in touch so I will update this as time goes by. (Bella has sadly been put down, her condition had become too painfull for her )
I have been sent x rays of her hips, one side is quite bad.
Update, Bella was put down when her problem became to much for her, her saddened owners sent me this poem, they will later be getting another pup .
If it should be that I get frail and weak
and pain should keep me from my sleep
then you must do what must be done
for this, tough battle, cant be won
you will be sad I understand
dont let your grief then stay your hand
for this day more than the rest
your love and friendship stand the test
dont grieve it should be you
who decides this thing to do
youd not want me to suffer
so when the time comes ,please let me go
I know in time you will see
it is kindness you do to me
Although my tail, its last has waved
from pain and suffering Ive been saved
smile for we walked together for a while
"GOOD FRIENDS LIVE IN OUR HEARTS FOREVER"
The only other Bandog (below) I have heard of with problems has not been x rayed and has been taken to a dog Chiropractor, at last I heard she was doing well and improving, she is exceptionally large for a bandog at 65 kgs and this may be partly why she was lame, if her problem was HD I would doubt a Chiropractor could have done much for her, lameness can have have many causes, most often it is pulled muscles or ligaments and will come right given rest and time.

----- Original Message -----From: karen higginsCc: karen higginsSent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 2:39 PMSubject: photo on your web siteHello Maria,I recently read your web page where you showed pictures and stories of neos with regards to HD, cherry eye and assorted ailments. You showed a picture of my dog and a short story how she was being treated by a dog chiropractor. She still is being treated for joint problems not HD. But what I found a problem was when I contacted you orginally about the size of the animal you sold me as a Bandog you told me there was a throw back to a Neo. All though you said you would replace the dog, I could not send her back after 2 years. I found it strange that you refered to the dog as a large bandog. We both know this is not true. I had planned on buying a second bandog from you when this dog aged more, but I am worried I will end up with the same result and from reading your web page you seem to not take responsibility for defects and wrong breeding e.g throwback to Neo. By making the buyer do all the research through vets to satisfy you seems a bit one sided.Whilst the dog I had is nothing like you advertised, I can still not get rid of her. So be sure when you sell a dog the buyer gets what you say he will get.Barry
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Hi Barry,I think you have misunderstood me in the past, maybe I did not make things clear enough, please let me correct that, and do not get too upset.Even though she is a throw back to a Neo in size, she is the same breeding as all our Bandogs, but just bigger, this can happen with dogs of any breed or crossbreed, as it can even with people, I cannot say why, any more than any Doctor can say why a person may become a giant,or a dwarf, sure, it may be genetic , but what makes those genes act that way in that particular individual is not thing anyone can say for sure.Dogs, not even pure bred dogs, are an exact science, like, you do this and do that, and for 100 % get this or that result, Bandogs the world over vary greatly in size, always have, always will. they are not a cake mix, we can only say what is the norm, in your case this was way out, I am sorry for your troubles but not a lot I can do, and you do seem to love the dog, so what do you want me to do! put on my site that your dog is a freak? she is not, just bigger than she should be, and how, without a proper diagnosis can I even know why she has problems or what they are?I offered you another pup thinking that because of her problems you would want to get rid of her as so many would have, I also asked you to keep me informed of how she went as I do care and would like to keep in touch and would like to know what her joint problems are if you can tell me, breeders never stop learning you know, and she seems to be a one off in that her problems are not hd or ed, also she is still going in spite of them and her being oversized, this is very interesting, from a scientific point of view and if you would let me know as much as you can about what her actual condition is it may be of help to another at some time.The average size of a Trublue bitch is from 30 odd to 40 odd kgs very few are either smaller or larger than that, most are in the middle, which is the size I like to see them.Not sure here what you think is not true? the fact that a Bandog has thrown back in her make up, looks and size to an Neo, the main breed in her? She is a Bandog, a crossbreed, so what is not true about that?I took responsibility for her alleged faults in offering you another pup on your word alone, even though you sent through no proof of any genetic fault which I like to see, and since I have had a few try to take advantage of the fact that I would often just give another pup over the years I now ask for such proof.I think I also make it clear on my site that in spite of best efforts made, shit happens, can you name any breed of dog which is not ever known to throw a faulty pup? if you can, I will line up to buy one.Since you are clearly think I have not honestly represented your dog on my site, I will put this up there so others can be warned, and, if they wish to be sure of a breeder being spot on about size, and not only guaranteeing that they will replace a (proven) faulty pup but even offer to replace one without proof of said fault as I did in your case, they can fuck off and buy else where.Cheers Maria

OCD

After surgery on left shoulder at 8 months.
Surgery has been successful, he is doing well, had one set back when stitches were removed too early and the wound opened up again, had go back and have it sewn up again, but all else has gone well, and he is now fine.
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This pup had Unuited Anconeal Process An elbow condition, we have had several cases of this, the pups which had it were all put down. It is a genetic condition and not easy to breed out, I have culled the parents which produced the faulty pups, but it is a known fault with Neos, so may rear it's head again at some stage. Though, touch wood, there have been no new cases for several years.
At the moment I am watching closely a bitch with skin problems which the owner thinks stemmed from a cortisone needle given for what was thought to be a bite, and which was in fact an abcess!
(Prior to this, the dog had perfect skin)
As we have never had a dog with skin problems I tend to agree with the owner that the cortisone had something to do with the dogs problem, the owner has been told by a specialist that cortisone can mask infections to the extent that they cannot be picked up even with tests, and as Neos do not have good immune systems to start with, this dog may well be suffering because her immune system has been messed up from the cortisone, theory only, but would advise strongly against cortisone.
I have also had one pup who had to make 3 stops to get to his destination by plane, this dog although fearless when confronted by man is afraid of loud noises, we think it is because of trauma through being sent on such a long journey whilst still in a 'fear' stage at 8 weeks of age, (imagine the noise around a busy airport) I will no longer send any young pup on such a journey, and always test all pups for any sign of undue fear of loud noise, some fear is natural, but should be soon overcome by exposure to loud noise as a young puppy, any pup which does not pass this test is culled, ditto breeding stock of course.
Pups which have gone by direct flight have never suffered this problem, even when they have gone overseas on long flights as long as it is airport to air port and no overnight stops. Some pups are uneasy at first in their new home, that is natural and not at all the same as an ongoing fear which lasts into adulthood.
This tollerance to noise puts our dogs way in front of most dogs of most breeds worldwide, 98% of even trained PP dogs of any breed will run from loud noise.
IN OTHER WORDS FEAR OF NOISE CAN BE BRED OUT OF A LINE OF DOGS, PROVIDING THERE IS NO ENVIRONMENTAL REASON FOR IT IN INDIVIDUAL ANIMALS.
An update on genetic problems and my thoughts about same follows.
The standard view of heritable disease is that for any disorder or disease to be inherited, a gene must go bad (mutate) and that gene must get passed on to the offspring.
What Skinner and his colleagues did is show that exposing a pregnant rat to high doses of a class of pesticides known as "endocrine disruptors" causes an inherited reproductive disorder in male rats that is passed on without any genetic mutation.
It's not genetic change; it's an "epigenetic" change. Epigenetics is a relatively new field of science that refers to modifying DNA without mutations in the genes.
"It's not a change in the DNA sequence," Skinner explained. "It's a chemical modification of the DNA."
The WSU study, Skinner said, suggests the possibility that environmental factors such as toxins may also directly cause heritable changes in creatures.
These new findings will make it even harder for today's breeders to know not only what their lines are throwing in the way of faults, but why, simple genetics are not the be all and end all, no matter what tests may be devised, although they will certainly help, it is vitally important to practise safe and sustainable breeding practises if some breeds are not to be bred to extinction.
There needs to be changes made to what breeders, often new to the game can do in regard to line breeding and the over use of popular sires needs to be addressed as well.
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